I always have looked at “indie” as a term of “independence.” Never

I always have looked at “indie” as a term of “independence.” Never associated a sonic gesture with that in the same way that pop music has always meant “popular” to me it didn’t define a sound. And I think now that has been the context for things. If something is indie, it almost has this sonic association with it, or pop has become this term of shame almost, like, bubblegum sweet pop.